Your Thoughts, My Thoughts

I'm writing this as a response to a post a friend of mine made at the beginning of December. My friend discussed their beliefs, and why they think that they are justified. I want to take a moment to address two of them.

That God or the gods, have reason. That we should not all argue I am right you are wrong. [sic] Just try to get along with our different beliefs. That is true compassion. Respecting and getting along with those who think and see the world differently from you.

I have no problem with people of different religious (or non-religious) backgrounds peacefully co-existing with one another. It's a very admirable goal, and one I support. However, I think that we should argue. We have every reason to do so, and no reasons not to do so.

I want to remind people that an argument isn't necessarily a disagreement. An argument can be a discussion from differing points of view, a method of reasoning from one point to another using logical steps. [Link] Non-believers argue with believers because they feel that (in their view) unjustified belief can cause real damage. And they do. With the fear of free discourse, there can be no free discourse. If our society and our culture are to move forward, we must be ready to have difficult discussions. I think that John Stuart Mill established these ideas fairly well in his work, On Liberty.

In addition, I do not find it acceptable to respect another person's ideas simply because of their faith. Respect implies that there is validity. I will not respect (I may not even tolerate) an idea that I find anathema to good ethics. This isn't to say that I won't respect the person. An individual may strongly disagree with another person's arguments, but may still respect that person. This is a mark of a civil society, and all that a civil society should ask of us is that we tolerate one another.

That people who say religion is bad and it should be gone all together are nieve. [sic] Every one [sic] has the right to belive [sic] what they want. And although I myself am not a huge fan of religion, that does not mean it should be gone. Every one will continue to belive [sic] what they will. Getting rid of the church, or temple or moske [sic] will not stop the faith.

I do not believe that people who say 'religion is bad' and perhaps even 'the world would be a better place without religion' are naive. Some of them are the most intelligent and articulate people I'm aware of. I myself, in the past, have counted among those who thought that the world would be a better place without religion. I may do so in the future. The difficulty is that we live in a world of religion, and we have no world without religion to compare it to. We have no way of knowing if a world without religion would be a better world than the one we live in now. I do agree that everyone has the freedom to believe in whatever they want, and that religious faith will persist.

Together, I think that these are 'Shut up, that's why' arguments. I see aspects of an argument from suppressed premises here. In the first case, I believe my friend neglects why the disagreement exists in the first place. In the second, they neglect to mention why some people think that religion is harmful, or bad. Further, if people are entitled to believe what they wish, as my friend suggests, does that not include the belief that religion is harmful? I don't think so.

I have a few minor disagreements with a few of my friend's other ideas, but that is (perhaps) a discussion for another time.

My Sins

It's time for confession.

Sometimes, I stereotype Christians. Even the ones I know. Sometimes I think they're intolerant, self-righteous, arrogant, ignorant (intentionally or otherwise), hypocritical, and so on. I usually manage to catch myself, but it's still disconcerting. Not all Christians are like this of course-and it's the rare few that have all of those traits.

The truth is sometimes I think this way about all types of religious people. I only single out Christians above because they're the most familiar to me and the ones I come into contact with the most. If I lived in Israel I might feel the same way about Jews, or Muslims if I lived in Saudi Arabia. (Although I might not express my thoughts, given the blasphemy laws some middle eastern countries have.)

I read a lot of American and global news. I read about the rise of Christian nationalism in the United States, religiously motivated cliterodectomies in Africa, and honour killings in the middle east and even parts of the first world. I also read a few atheist blogs, some of which appear in the sidebar. These blogs occasionally discuss events from around the world that exemplify the horrors of fundamentalist religion. As an atheist, these things scare me.

I don't come from a religious background. I don't have that experience. This makes it difficult for me to understand religious people on a fundamental level. If you have ever given a dog a command and the dog is unsure what to do, it will often cock its head to the side as it looks at you. I feel like that dog sometimes when I talk to religious people.

I hope you can forgive me.

An Update

An entry posted on the Pharyngula blog is discussing some of the themes addressed in one of my previous posts, TMI Tuesday on Marriage. The entry and comment thread can be found here.

I've also decided to add Pharyngula to the sidebar.

Here's hoping there's a good TMI Tuesday tomorrow.

Gisburne Redux

Apparently, Nick Gisburne has put his website back up. Here's his explanation:

As you know I closed my web site recently, apparently a permanent thing. So once again I'm back and... I'm messing with you, right? I give that impression, I'm aware, but please understand that I find it difficult to keep on talking about atheism, purely because I feel so strongly about the things on this site and in my book. Sometimes it becomes too hard for me to look at what religion does to the world, and I have to shut myself off from it, completely. I'm complicated, that's all I can say. But here, by popular demand, is the return of my web site, with my sincere apologies to those people who felt let down when I took it offline. I can almost guarantee this will not be the last time I do it, but please stick with me through the bad times!

Read this blog entry to see why I decided not to leave after all.

Yay!

Cultural Appropriation and Irony

Some of you that read my blog, in fact most of you, will probably know that I attended a Christian youth group for a while. Personally, I considered this mostly an excuse to hang out with my friends that were Christian.

This group held their meetings on Friday evenings, and it would involve a sermon of some sort. Usually, I would critically examine these sermons, as a sort of mental exercise. I think that it also made the time pass a bit faster. The sermons that the first pastor would give were pretty good, and I felt that even non-Christians, people of a secular nature, could gain something from listening to them.

After the first pastor left and was replaced, the sermons became noticeably different. They were delivered with more of an authoritative voice, a voice with more fervor. It also seemed that the message in these sermons was uniquely Christian, and that someone of a secular nature would have little if anything to gain from listening to them. One of my friends described him as more of a "fire and brimstone" preacher than the first pastor had been.

One Friday night, this pastor used a Native American folk story to illustrate a point. At the time, I was a bit annoyed that he had gotten some of the wording wrong. (If this seems a bit anal to you, you should know that I suffer from Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder.) Afterwords, I told him that he had gotten some of the wording wrong. He chuckled and waved it off with "It's just a legend. The wording doesn't matter." I walked off, a bit more annoyed than I had been because of his comment. The irony of the entire situation didn't occur to me until a week or so ago.

First, the Native American oral tradition is a very important one. For centuries, the oral tradition was the only way that the Native Americans had to pass their creation myths, legends, and fables on to the next generation. I have no doubt that they took it very seriously, including the exact wording of these stories. I am not saying that these stories did not change; they undoubtedly did over the centuries, even if only a little bit.

Second, is it really appropriate for a member of the Christian faith to use a Native American story to illustrate a point? I'm talking about a religion that actively tried to convert the indigenous peoples of North America, tried to destroy their culture, and herded them on to reservations so more land would be available for European settlement. Not to mention residential schooling, an issue that is still being dealt with by the government today. I do not think that it is appropriate for an evangelical Christian to use a Native American parable to perpetuate their faith's goals.

Third, the irony! It's only a story and the wording doesn't matter? I wish you would apply that reasoning to your own faith! There are hundreds of contradictions in the Bible and the Bible has been translated countless times, after being passed down orally for generations! I would say something to the effect of "It's the message, not the details that matter" but the Bible has so many contradictions and some of Christianity's central beliefs are so cruel that they are tantamount to abuse!

Now you might expect me to warn people about thinking about what they say before they say it, lest it reflect badly upon them. I'm not going to say that. It serves as a warning to the rest of us.

"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."

-Isaac Asimov

Chuck Norris Has Lost All My Respect and Adoration.

I did intend to make this post about my trip to Europe, but through the glory that is Nick Gisburne's website, I found my way to Objective: Ministries. I will now, for your pleasure, create a list of humourous things (or at least things that I find humourous) that I have found on the website.

1. They claim that the Internet was created by the United States of America, that the United States of America is a Christian nation, and that it is their Internet.

2. They have a section on "Evolutionist Propaganda," a section entitled "Those Wacky Evolutionists," and use a racial slur: "Chinamen."

3. Their "Mall Missions" section is too large for me to give a full account. At one point, they draw conclusion about the names of various retail stores. Here's my favorite bit, describing teenagers: "Called "Mall Rats" in their nihilistic Secular culture, they can often be found hanging around malls after public school doing nothing constructive."

4. Their "Anti-Occult" section. Again, this is too large for a full account. It has an image of druids performing a ceremony in front of a tree. The caption reads: "Typical Druid coven sacrificing a human to a tree." I recommend that you listen to their recording of a druid ceremony for additional hilarity.

5. Their "4 Kidz" [sic] section. My favorites are "Habu's Corner" which is nothing but a testimony to ignorance (Hindus are henotheistic, not polytheistic) and "Spiritual Safety Tip" which provides information on what a child should do if they encounter an atheist. Go ahead, click on Mr. Gruff's head! He's right about one thing: "Coffee's the only thing that gives me solace!"

6. Their online store features clothing with images of a laughing Jesus with the caption LOL (Love Our Lord.) Unfortunately, this includes a thong with a laughing Jesus conveniently missing the "LOL: Love Our Lord." NOW I know why Jesus is laughing.

7. The banner ads. Here are some highlights:

-One of those banner Flash games where you need to hit something. You need to hit a "beatnik atheist" carrying a sign reading "I hate God" with a Bible. The prize? A free Bible, how unimaginative.

-A National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools ad featuring Chuck Norris as a spokesman. Chuck Norris, you have just lost all my respect. ...Please don't kill me.

-"Armor of God" Pajamas. This doesn't need explaining.

-I'm just going to quote this one: "The Presidential Prayer Team For Kids. Hey kids! President Bush needs your prayers!" The Hell he does.

-"Bible Bar: Contains the eight foods of Deuteronomy 8:8"

-"His Essence: Candles that smell like our Lord."

-"Useabeliever.com: Because I don't want my money supporting non-Christians." I didn't know that Christians had their own Yellow Pages.

-Biblical Action Figures. Enough said.

-An ad for the Christian Hackers Association reading: "JESUS IS L33T3R THAN NEO" or "GOD HAS UNIVERSAL ROOT."

-"Have you seen pornography on the Internet? It is illegal to distribute obscene material over the Internet. make a report!" Bullsh*t. The Internet is an unregulated medium for the transfer of information.

-"Did you know that Pat Robertson can leg press 2000 pounds? How does he do it?" [insane laughter] Apparently he uses protein shakes.

-An ad that in part reads "Fact: Being gay takes 30 years off your life! That's not cool..." That's also not true, fundie.

-I can't read the banner ad for this one, so here's the website.

-An ad for 1-in-3 Trinity Christian Energy Drink. "Refuel your Faith!"

-"Straight Pride [Trade Mark]. Show your pride, get a bride! Got a womb? Get a groom!" I can't wait to hear the feminists rage about this one.

-"Works Through Faith: W.T.F. Ministries." I don't need to explain this, do I?

-"Larry Dye, The Creation Guy!" How bad is it when you need to parody a name that's lame to begin with? (All apologies to Bill Nye, The Science Guy. We know you're awesome.)

-An ad for Fight the Good Fight Ministries. It has the caption "Satan wants your children!" with a pair of blond lesbians kissing. I'm sold.

-This ad features a gun pointed at the reader with the caption "Evolutionists want to murder you. You are just an animal to them."

-"Book 22: Intimacy products for married couples." It's a reference to the Song of Solomon. I admit, I don't think I've ever heard of a sex store catering specifically to Christians before. After taking a look at their merchandise, I don't think that (their) God would approve.

Peace out, readers. The Muse is stopping here.